On this episode, released on June 22, 2021, we welcome Adam Cox. Adam is one of the most in-demand experts on addiction in Europe, but he is not your average specialist! As a Psychologist and Hypnotherapist he has helped hundreds of clients as well as educating himself deeply on understanding the many individual addiction issues to be able to help people at the core level.
Listen
Watch
Show Notes
The Healthier Tech Podcast is the show bringing you a practical solutions-based approach to understanding how best to live in balance with our increasing reliance on tech.
The show from Shield Your Body brings you expert voices that clearly explain the science that matters to you, and the usable tips that you can use to live healthier, while defending against the health risks of modern day technologies.
Today on the show we welcome Adam Cox. Adam is one of the most in-demand experts on addiction in Europe, but he is not your average specialist! As a Psychologist and Hypnotherapist he has helped hundreds of clients as well as educating himself deeply on understanding the many individual addiction issues to be able to help people at the core level. As well as helping others overcome obstacles, Adam has also really figured out what it takes to create a success-focused psychology, having become a self-made millionaire at the age of 27 by launching one of the UK top-rated PR agencies.
As Adam shares in this episode, he was being approached frequently by parents who were worried about their children spending too much time on gadgets and streaming devices. At that stage the NHS didn’t have the knowledge to be able to assist with the challenges that were being faced. This ever-growing tech addiction has affected not only children, but people of all ages who are increasingly seeking solace in digital devices. As Adam mentions in this episode, devices and online connectivity is often enabling users to meet all kinds of human needs such as pleasure, gratification, connection that are not being met in real life.
In this episode you will hear:
- What is tech addiction
- The consequences of tech addiction
- Setting boundaries with technology
- How to improve your focus
- How COVID exacerbated people’s addictive behaviours
- Ways to lessen the physical or psychological impact of tech addiction
- How to help a loved one with tech addiction
For more information on the subject covered today head to https://www.shieldyourbody.com/ for resources, in-depth articles, free tips and PDF guides to learn all about EMF, health and protection.
For more information on Adam and his work head to https://www.adamcox.co.uk/
Transcript
R Blank 0:02
Hello, everyone, I’m R Blank and welcome to another episode of the healthier tech podcast, the podcast about a healthier approach to living alongside modern technology. So today we have Adam Cox. Now I think this is going to be really interesting. Adam is a hypnotherapist based out of the UK. But he’s not just any hypnotherapist
Adam Cox 0:18
that can be really positive addictions. And if no harm has been gone, it has to be that there has to be some kind of negative consequences. And with tech addiction quite often it has a psychological or emotional consequence, and sometimes a financial or occupational consequence.
R Blank 0:34
So let’s step back a moment in time, Adam became a self made millionaire by launching a PR agency at the ripe old age of 23. he developed his interest in hypnosis at the age of 14. And today he’s most well known as a hypnotherapist to celebrities, CEOs, and even royalty, which leads me to wonder which Royals but moving on, he has two podcasts in the iTunes charts. And he’s also a founder of addiction experts. So I’ve spoken at him before it was actually last year. And I can tell you once you hear his voice, it will not surprise you in the least that he’s a hypnotherapist. Seriously it is it is quite a voice. Today I’ll be chatting with Adam about tech addiction. Tech addiction is a serious and growing problem, but we normally talk about it from the perspective of emf exposure and what it does to your health. Before we begin a brief word, this podcast is brought to you by my company shield your body, where it is our mission to help make technology safer for you and your loved ones to enjoy. Inspired by the life’s work of my father, Dr. Martin Blanc one of the world’s leading EMF scientists, I founded shield your body in 2012. We provide a ton of great and free resources for you to learn all about EMF radiation, like articles, ebooks, webinars, videos, and this podcast. And we also have a world class catalog of Laboratory Tested EMF and 5g protection products from our phone pouch and laptop pad all the way up to our bed canopy. All of our shielding products are Laboratory Tested and include a lifetime warranty. Learn more about our products, while we have hundreds of 1000s of satisfied customers around the world at shield your body.com that shield your body all one word.com and use promo code pod to save 15% on your first order. Free Shipping throughout North America and Europe. But today we’re going to talk to Adam about ways to actually combat tech addiction. And this is all going to be based on his direct clinical experience. And it’s a great opportunity because Adam is the UK is leading addiction expert. It’s insight that’s really hard to find. And I think a lot of you will find it interesting. So welcome, Adam, thank you very much for taking the time to join us here. To get started. I know that you’re an expert hypnotherapist, but you’re also an expert in tech addiction. Could you start by telling us a little bit about your background, and then how you ended up working in the area of tech addiction specifically?
Adam Cox 2:58
Sure. So I qualified as a clinical hypnotherapist about six years ago, and decided to specialize in three key areas. And that was weight loss, phobias, and addictions. And what what I found happening is that a lot of the popular, let’s say addictions, were already catered for, in various ways. If you think of alcohol addiction, if you think of nicotine addiction, there are lots of infrastructures in place for those types of addictions. What was naturally happening is that I was being approached by quite often parents worried about their children spending too much time on mobile phones, tablets, you know, streaming services. And the NHS, at that point in time, hadn’t launched an a gaming addiction specialist. The World Health Organization hadn’t labeled gaming disorder, an actual issue, but parents were actually seeing it firsthand that their children were spending more and more time on these digital devices and getting a very aggressive if they couldn’t go on there. And seeing the the psychological impact, the emotional impact of of what was actually happening in front of them. And the health services and the traditional kind of approaches, going to a local GP, they they didn’t know how to handle this, this was something new for them. And that’s why I think I naturally had more and more clients and more clients I worked with in that area, the more I got featured in in newspapers and magazines and TV, and then word gets around and it’s like, oh, here’s someone that might be able to help in this area, if that makes sense.
R Blank 4:48
Yeah, that’ll make total sense. So just briefly for for those of us who aren’t British, the NHS is, I believe the National Health Service in the UK is that correct?
Adam Cox 4:57
Yes, the health organization so everything from a local GP, right down to hospitals and surgeons, and would be the natural place, for a, let’s say, a worried parent or even an individual that feels like it’s affecting their employment, and not just games and kind of streaming services, but social media as well, you know, people find that it massively interrupts with their sleep. And the the NHS, the health service, didn’t have the knowledge, the understanding of the issue, to be able to help and really figure out what was going on. In many cases, they, they would label it, just an anxiety disorder or a sleep disorder, not really figuring out that this is inextricably linked to the digital devices that they are consuming.
R Blank 5:48
So that’s, that’s, that’s really it’s, and this was only six years ago, you’re saying?
Adam Cox 5:54
Yeah, and it’s it’s grown in in popularity. And the I think a lot of people have appreciated that, you know, it’s quite interesting, the the World Health Organization, labeled gaming disorder as a genuine health disorder. In I think, 2018 2019, when the pandemic came along, they were encouraging children to spend more time on games, because in their mind, that would be better than them socializing with people. So quite often, there is huge contradictions within the actual Health Organization’s themselves. And what it means is that, I think there was a lot of stress parents, there was a lot of lonely children. And then, you know, people of all ages suddenly sought sought solace in these digital devices, that could actually enable them to meet their need for pleasure, gratification connection, all these kind of human needs that people have have a kind of a requirement for, that couldn’t be met in real life. So actually, the the pandemic has only amplified and increased, I think people’s addictive habits when it comes to social media, streaming services, games, particularly online games.
R Blank 7:16
So yeah, so I think that’s a really interesting point. I want to get back to that a little bit later in the interview about what what’s happened to, particularly in the past year, but stepping back a little bit. I think it might be helpful to have a quick discussion on what actually is tech addiction, it has, obviously, it has addiction in the name. And so you know, is it like alcohol or drug addiction? Or is it is it unlike that, or what is tech addiction?
Adam Cox 7:45
Yeah. So what what defines an addiction, rather than a habit is that the individual can’t simply stop, you know, it’s like saying to a gambler, or an alcoholic, oh, just stop drinking alcohol or stop gambling, they’ve already tried that they can’t, you know, it’s, it’s almost like they’re not in control of their own decisions at that point, which defines it as an addiction. Tech addiction is an umbrella term to talk about, really, the dependency for individuals using technology. And mainly what they’re talking about are smart devices. So things like smartphones and tablets, but it could also include smart TVs, and also PCs, normally something with internet connectivity, that gives people choice. And that choice could be games, it could be movies, could be TV shows, could be social media. And when you look at the consumption of the smart devices, those tend to be the main things. So streaming services, like Netflix, for example, social media, like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and in games and the games area is actually one of the most addictive areas because the the the gaming industry itself figured out, you know, about a decade ago, that the money isn’t in selling a game once to an individual, it’s pretty much giving away the game free and then encouraging microtransactions within the experience of the game itself. And they figured out that they could make a lot more money if someone spends, you know, $1 here dollar there, rather than $50 on the game itself at the beginning. And actually that’s that’s one of you know, when I work with clients with tech addiction, more often than not, it’s actually gaming addiction on smart devices.
R Blank 9:36
So the the I’m gonna try to ignore the fact that apparently watching Netflix is an indicator of this I I don’t know how I would have gotten through the past year, but my understanding of addiction is not only that, it becomes an addiction when you can’t stop, but when there is a it’s doing harm to your your life and your lifestyle. Am I am I on base with that? Are trees down? Yeah, yeah,
Adam Cox 10:04
it can be, that can be really positive addictions, you know, and if no harm has been gone, it has to be that there has to be some kind of negative consequence. And with tech addiction, quite often it, it has a psychological or emotional consequence. And sometimes a financial or occupational consequence. So if you’re, you know, watching, let’s say, five, six hours of Netflix every day, not an issue, the where it becomes an issue is if you’re watching up until 4am, in the morning, and you have to wake up at seven to get to work the next day, then it becomes a consequence, not an issue, if you spend, you know, 100 pounds $100, you know, a week on games, it’s if you can’t afford to pay your rent, because of the amount of money you’re spending on games, then it starts interfering with your real life. So you’re absolutely right, it’s not just the dependency, it’s the consequences of that dependency has to have some kind of detrimental impact on that individual’s life.
R Blank 11:00
And so and you’re seeing that in, in people with these symptoms,
Adam Cox 11:03
when nobody’s gonna come to me, if they’re addicted to, let’s say, games, and it’s not interfering with their life, you know, it’s the parent that has a child, that they’re not doing their schoolwork, or they’re tired at school, because they’re up all night on, you know, a smartphone, for example, or it’s the person that feel it feels like fears that they’re going to lose their job, because they’re constantly checking social media and not getting any work done, you know, where, where the consequences of the behavior starts colliding with real life, and then the consequences of those potential decisions. And they’ve already tried to do it themselves. That’s when they would go to a specialist like me and say, I’ve tried this myself is not working, what do I do here? And that’s, that’s when I get the phone call or the email?
R Blank 11:49
And so do do people who come to you? Are they familiar with the term tech addiction? Or do they just think they have a problem that they need to solve? Is that something? Is there something that they’re aware of kind of more broadly?
Adam Cox 12:01
Yeah, it’s, they don’t, they don’t label it tech addiction, they will say, you know, I’m spending it, you know, I can’t sleep because I keep checking Instagram, you know, every 10 minutes at night, or, you know, I’m staying up late watching TV. And it means the, you know, I’ve nearly fell it fallen asleep at the wheel or something like that. So it tends to be although tech addiction is is an umbrella term, what you’re talking about is quite contextual. So that person that constantly checks their phone, you know, 60 times an hour, to see if they’ve got any more likes or notifications on social media probably can’t relate to the person that’s, you know, spending x hundreds of dollars on fortnight, because they’re in different worlds, and they’re not going to, you know, relate to that different context. But you know, someone in the medical profession or someone like me would look at that and say, Well, yeah, it’s a similar pattern, their technology has fueled some kind of habitual response that is now detrimental in some way. And that’s where it becomes an issue. And, you know, the term tech addiction, I think, is growing in popularity, because it’s, it’s a convenient way to cluster lots of things together in the same way that you could say, you know, gambling, you know, gambling is an addiction, it’s a disorder, but you’ve got very different types of gambling within them, you know, someone on slot machines, Gamble’s in a very different way to someone on online poker, and yet it would be collectively described as gambling or gaming disorder.
R Blank 13:41
Oh, that’s interesting. Yeah, I would have, I never would have even before you said that never would have thought that there were different types of gambling addiction. That’s, and so that’s what that is. And so that’s the same sort of the same sort of breakdown in terms of how things are playing out in tech addiction is what I hear you say?
Adam Cox 13:57
Yeah, totally is because what what tends to happen is that it all addictions are harmless to begin with, you know, it’s harmless fun, it is something that is just, you know, it’s very difficult to argue and say, right, there’s a problem here. If someone spends, you know, an hour, doing something recreational, you know, it’s not, it’s not really a problem. But within that world, within that universe, quite often the individual is having a richer experience than life would normally offer them. So if you think about a game, for example, in a game, you’ve got levels of consequences and excitement, that if someone’s got a boring job, they probably don’t get that same level of excitement. Within the gaming world. They might be a hero, they might be a leader, they have significance. They’re getting recognized through unlocking achievements, and getting badges, and all these kind of things that gives them a real sense of empowerment and significance that they might not be getting in their real life. And then, of course, You know, that emotional choice, if they’re bored, it’s kind of like, Well, yeah, they could think about their real job and things like that. And it kind of makes them feel a little bit worthless, perhaps. And then they think, oh, but then I could, I could just log in, and then suddenly, it’s meeting many of their needs. So that might be the need for connection. For example, we’re in a increasingly isolated world, you know, quite often people don’t speak to their neighbors. And particularly with a pandemic, social distancing has encouraged this kind of isolation. And yet online, whether it’s social media, or within a game, there is increasing amounts of interaction with real people. So if we look at gaming, two generations ago, it’s you versus the computer, or you versus the player sat right next to you with a joystick. And it isn’t that way anymore. You can join universes, you know, on these huge, you know, servers with massive kind of data resources. And you’ve got all of your friends there, perhaps friends that you’ve never met in real life, but you feel like you know, them online. And these aren’t, you know, bits of code is these other people that you can relate to and communicate with. So it’s meeting that that need of connection is meeting the need of significance is meeting that need of excitement, and adrenaline, and recognition, and all these kind of things. And quite often, it’s just a more desirable place to spend time than reality. But the problem is the consequences, you know, you can invest huge amounts of time, you know, watching Netflix, and it isn’t really going to contribute to your life that much. You know, and that’s really one of the key ways that I help people to break the pattern is in hypnosis, you can distort time, you know, and I think everyone has had some experience of time distortion, when they are immersed in something, you know, whether you call it a state of flow or a trance, if someone is immersed in a good book, then they’re not conscious that they’re turning the pages. And they’re not conscious that they’re following the words that’s happening by itself, and they’re creating a movie inside their mind’s eye. And then suddenly, might be two or three hours later, they put the book down. And they’ve got no concept of time, because they’re lost in that world. And time distortion is very common within games. You know, most people that have at least once binged on a boxset, on Netflix, Breaking Bad suits, you name it, there’s going to be something that someone’s had a bit of an addiction to. And the companies themselves realize that they don’t want to interrupt the pattern by allowing people to see the credits. So the moment the credits come up, you’ve got the ability to watch the next episode immediately. Now, that didn’t used to be the case, if we go back, even 15 years, there would be regular commercial breaks. So you could break the pattern, and get away from what you’re doing. That isn’t the case anymore. It’s so easy. And particularly if there’s some kind of cliffhanger or you know, extra reason to kind of see what’s happened next, you could watch four or five hours of TV non stop not moving very much. And you’re just lost in that world. So time distortion is one of the clues sometimes that you are in that kind of trance like state. And I use a similar state to get them out of there and say, right, just imagine that, you know, for the next two, three decades, you’re giving 25% of your free time to that. And for some people, it’s more than 25%. What What could that lead to, or what opportunities you’re going to miss out. And for me, it’s about creating a fear. You know, fear of missing out is really what gets people addicted to social media and games and things like that. But you want to use that same fear of missing out on real life experiences, to get them think, right, there is a consequence of spending so much time, you know, on these digital devices, but but it is a genuine thing. And it’s so easy for people to say, I’ll just put the phone down. But you know, for those people that you know, and they might not consider themselves an addict. But if you’re listening to this right now, you know, how many times do you check your phone in an hour if you actually started counting just with a little tally? And you might be surprised. You know, I’ve seen people on public transport or in gyms, checking it, you know, literally once a minute, because the it gives them that dopamine hit of all new information notification, something new to do or see. And that’s what makes it so addictive. And I don’t think we’ve seen addictions like this before.
R Blank 19:39
Well, you covered a lot of areas. I want to get back to but that last point, what I’m hearing you say is that this is more addictive than what you’ve previously encountered, or or what, what clinic clinicians have previously encountered is, is that is that what you’re saying?
Adam Cox 19:57
It is because of the accessible Let’s see, if we compare generations. So if you think about when the original kind of first generation of gaming consoles came out, as we’re thinking, you know, early, Nintendo’s and the seghers, and the retirees and things like that, they were fixed to one location. So even if you absolutely loved them, you couldn’t be at work at school and simultaneously on the game, you had to wait to get home to the news, that particular thing. So even if you loved it, you spend three, four hours there, you couldn’t spend 20 hours on it, or 18 hours on it, it’s contextual, to a particular location. Same thing with TV, even if you were a TV addict, you could only watch TV, if you were in your front room, looking at the set with the limited number of channels that were available. At that point in time. That’s no longer the case. These digital devices, smartphones, tablets, watches you name it means that you’ve got the ability to access whatever it is, that is your thing. Constantly. You know, so people used to, you know, feel dead time, maybe reading things looking around, there is no need for that anymore. You know, if you’re, if you miss out on a bus, or, or whatever it might be, you can you can fill that six minute void doing whatever you need to. And then you see, you know, I as a hypnotist, I recognize the trance state. Prior to COVID if I wanted to see a lot of people in deep levels of transit will have to do was gone the London Underground, and you’re seeing, you know, person after person in deep trance like states, because they’ve, they’re a concentrated focus on intention, they are not aware of what’s going on around him. You know, it’s a dream for pickpockets, but it’s it’s that kind of state that they’re in highly addictive. And, and, and actually harmless, so long as it’s imbalanced. But for those few people that you know, aren’t so in control with setting boundaries, for example. So you know, if it’s sleep disorders is one of the key things that it really has an impact on, because that affects so many other parts of their life. If people take the smart device to bed with them, quite often, you know, I’ve you know, my clients that I work with in this specific area, if they are gambling online, if they are playing games online, if they’re checking social media frequently, quite often they’re sleeping with their phone, literally under their head under the pillow, that’s the only thing separating that device from from their phone, and they won’t have a good night’s sleep, they’re checking that throughout the night. Because there is that that fear of what am I missing out on what new things are gonna be on there. And that could even be an email, you know, these workaholics, that kind of thinking about their job all the time, that I wonder if the emails come in, and then they will literally check their phone, you know, perhaps 1015 times in what would have normally been go back, you know, a couple of decades, just a healthy night’s sleep. So the boundaries that were naturally there to separate, let’s say, recreation, and sleep, or work and sleep, very blurred. And that’s what’s having, you know, incremental consequences. So I don’t think we’ve seen, you know, an addiction like this before. And also, I think, is very much at the tip of the iceberg. Because the amount of choice is only going to get bigger, the data speeds are only going to get faster. And the you know, the companies are going to hire more people like me to have people spending more and more time and spending more and more money on these devices, which then gets people into these kind of addictive loops. So you know, it’s a time bomb, waiting to go off Really? Well.
R Blank 23:57
So you mentioned accessibility, being a key contributing factor to the context of this addiction, and it’s helping eliminating boundaries of when you when that would otherwise prevent you from engaging in these activities. So that’s all that’s all context. What are the actual mechanisms that that get people addicted?
Adam Cox 24:23
There’s lots of different mechanisms, what what psychological as well as technical mechanisms. So curiosity is a good psychological mechanism. So quite often, if you see, for example, that little.or a bell or something to represent notifications, you don’t actually know what the notifications are, you know, is that equivalent if you’ve got a message, but you don’t know who it’s from. So generating curiosity is a very, very good way for people to be encouraged to just check because it could be from so many different people, I guess. Their mind thinking about it. So curiosity is advice, you know, insignificance, or unfairness is an advantage. So a lot of these freemium games, for example, it, they are impossible to win unless you spend money on microtransactions in the game. So if you’re playing this game, and you’re losing all the time, and then when you do spend a small amount of money, that gives you an element of a competitive advantage to win, you know, and a lot of these gaming things doesn’t matter if it’s Minecraft, or Roblox for kids, or fortnight for teenagers, they’ve got the ability to pay a bit of money, and then have an advantage with that spend, which then perpetuates and reinforces or when I spend money with, that leads to more victory that leads to more, you know, kind of elements of success. And then that loop continues. So sometimes it’s, you know, psychological techniques, sometimes it’s technological techniques. For example, a lot of social media apps, will gather data, and they will give bespoke notifications. So if you are watching Netflix, and the new series comes up, you’re gonna get a notification or an email, letting you know about them. You know, if you’ve got a friend that you’re connected to on social media, and they start posting something or doing something live, you get notified. So again, the personalization, that the technical ability to give you bits of information, again, encourages people to find out the rest of the information doesn’t really matter if it’s a TV show, or a game, or anything else, these companies are gathering the information and then using that information to increase profit. And the main way in which they do that is either attention, so if you think of the model of social media, like Facebook, for example, the more time you spend on Facebook, the more advertising revenues, a company like Facebook has, so for them, they want to have you on they’re spending as much time all the time as they can. So you know, and they and they are testing everything, to figure out what works. So, you know, that is effectively you know, growing system, machine learning that learns how to make people more addicted to these devices. Now, that that could lead to, you know, anxiety and social comparison and all this kind of stuff, poor sleep. But equally, there are cases where people checking phones while driving, because that dopamine here, or that curiosity of what is that message, just need to check is so powerful, that people are deciding to do things when they should be, you know, attention on the road, but if your attention is on Facebook, or WhatsApp, or Facebook Messenger or Instagram, it can’t simultaneously be on the road. So there are genuine consequences. And, you know, these companies, they either want to capture your attention, or encourage you to do these microtransactions you know, which could be you know, it seems very harmless, you know, something like candy crush that was very popular, you know, kind of 10 years ago, you just have to spend, you know, 3040 pencil cents, and then you don’t have to wait, and it’s just seems insignificant, but it gets people spending money. And then when you add it all up, that time that money will it has an opportunity cost, you can’t also be spending that money all that time doing something else.
R Blank 28:39
So you’ve mentioned Sleep, sleep disruption a couple of times now. And I think you also mentioned anxiety, what are some of the other health symptoms or or, or health costs that you tend to or have seen in in those who come to you with tech addiction?
Adam Cox 28:59
Yeah, totally. So you know, sometimes it is the financial cost. So people are, are worried that they’re spending too much, particularly if it is things like online poker or some of the games that encourage spending. So that that’s often it, sometimes it can lead to what’s known as ADHD. So attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, that constant checking, because effectively if you’re constantly having the ability for your brain to release those neurotransmitters, the serotonin, the dopamine, just by checking, all that encourages you to always seek instant gratification. So it has been linked to things like ADHD, you know, also physical loneliness. If you can meet a lot of your human needs by interacting with people only online. There are many people that prefer their digital life than their real Life. And that can actually lead to not just loneliness, but you know, things like depression, as well. So there are genuine health consequences or financial consequences to what most people, you know, if you ask the average person on the street, you know, what, what’s more dangerous, you know, a drug addiction or kind of being addicted to tech? You know, it’s easy, you know, of course, because everyone’s on tech, the tech is the harmless one. But if you just look a little bit below the surface, there are genuine consequences in terms of not just mental health, but physical health. Because if you’re not moving very much, and you’re just sat in front of a screen, could lead to increased levels of obesity, heart disease, strokes, things like that. So, you know, it doesn’t take too much investigation to see, right. Well, this genuinely does have a health impact.
R Blank 30:56
So, you earlier you use the term tip of the iceberg in terms of in terms of where you feel we are at right now and where we’re going. Do you have any sense? Or does anyone have they tried to scope? how widespread some version of this condition is? And I know you, you know, COVID, the past year of lockdowns, that’s obviously exacerbated thing. So maybe maybe, you know, as of a year ago, you know, where, where was this addiction at in terms of how how widespread it is in the population?
Adam Cox 31:31
Yeah. So I mean, there are very limited figures is really the key thing. So I mentioned the, the NHS launching their gaming disorder clinic in in North London, there is a huge amount of people on these devices, you know, so if you if you kind of look at the amount of people with a smart device, it used to be a very small proportion, people would have maybe mobile phones, but maybe not smartphones, that’s now the dominant thing, if you have a phone, it’s likely to be a smartphone, which means you’ve got the internet connectivity, you’ve got the apps, if we look at just a single app, like Netflix, for example, during quarantine, and these are us figures, the average us Netflix subscriber spent 3.2 hours per day, you know, and 6.1 billion hours in the last single month of quarantine as a huge amount. And that’s just, you know, that’s that’s one app, you know, yes, it could be on a TV. Now, there are ways to lessen the the physical or the psychological impact. So my policy, for example, whenever I watch something on Netflix, I like Netflix. But I have a spinning bike right in front of the TV. So if I’m watching it, I’m cycling, so I’m kind of getting, I’m able to kind of dovetail two things at the same time. So I’m, I’m getting that that kind of physical activity, while also getting that, that kind of psychological stimulation from the movie or the TV show, or whatever it might be. But the I mean, the clue also is in the monetization of these gaming companies. So I think it was about eight years ago that the gaming industry in terms of computer games exceeded the movie industry in terms of revenue. So you have this kind of like big Hollywood, you know, movie industry that are there’s so much money in movies. the gaming industry overtook that a long time ago. And the model changed from, like I say, these money spent on the game, to the amount spent, while playing the game, that freemium model. And that is leading to, you know, a huge amount of people getting into into debt, because children, quite often they don’t have the parental controls on these devices. And they just think, Hey, I can I can have this thing that I really like. And it’s just cost me this, but it really doesn’t feel like real money to them. If that makes sense.
R Blank 34:13
Yeah, no, it makes total sense. So I in terms of putting the TV, the exercise bike in front of the TV, I think that’s a great point at which to, to move into, I don’t know if treatment is the right word, but ways that you know, if someone comes to you with problems in terms of their relationship with technology, I’d like to try to get a better understanding of, you know, how you approach addressing that situation. And I imagine that you’ve brought this up to that it’s going to be a little bit different between adults and children, as well as maybe the particular type of tech that they’re addicted to. But let’s start with adults. And let’s start with with gaming. So let’s say an adult comes to you and And they have a they have a gaming addiction, you how do you approach helping them,
Adam Cox 35:07
it’s really about creating that emotional leverage. So normally they’re conflicted. You know, and you see this a lot in in addicts of all different types. There’s a part of them, that really loves doing whatever they’re addicted to. And that might be playing games or watching TV or whatever it might be. They love it, because it meets that need. But then there’s this other part that is starting to deal with the actual consequences. So part of what I need to do is to
communicate with the part that still wants to do the thing. Because, you know, and sometimes you hear this in the language of people, you know, quite typical, just to kind of make it relatable to the average person listening. If you think about a new year’s resolution, so many people in many different countries will make a new year’s resolution on January the first now say, right, I’m going to exercise more, or I’m going to eat less, or I’m going to go to the gym, or whatever it might be. And in that moment, they really do want to do that. But the problem is, is that there’s a different part of them. So if they’re going to exercise more, and look out the window, and it’s raining, and then there’s a TV in front of them on a on a warm, you know sofa, and they can they can do that, that becomes more desirable. So that’s an example of kind of conflicted parts moving in different directions. It’s just more exaggerated in someone that’s addicted. And that’s what makes them feel that they’re not in control, because the part that’s addicted, isn’t normally the part that you’re communicating to in the therapy room, you’re speaking to the part that already knows that it wants to change. And that’s why you see low levels of change, because there’s that dissonance, there’s a disconnect between them. So what’s really important is that I’ve got to communicate to the part that loves it. And kind of say, Well, what is it that you love about it? And they’ll you know, let’s say it’s a game, it’s got all the excitement, you know, and you know, the feeling of success, of accomplishment of achievement, and all this kind of stuff. And I’m listening to those words. And for me, what I need to do is to communicate that the part that’s addicted, to say, right, well, let’s say how good is it going to feel? If you spend 10 years playing this game, and you know, when you think back, those memories of winning all those games is that gonna still make you feel accomplished and successful and significant. And rarely does it because there is a genuine difference between memories of real human accomplishment, you know, so if you if you climb a mountain on a game, or if you climb a mountain in real life, they’re going to feel different when you think about the memory, because one’s real experience, and one and the other is dissociated through the screen. So the key thing is, it’s a feeling of those things. But it’s a fabrication, it’s not the real sense, in the same way that, you know, a strawberry flavored sweet is not the same as a strawberry. Okay, it has similarities to it. But they’re very, very different. So for me, the way to change it is to elicit what is it that makes it so addictive? And then say, right, well, you’ve got the fabricated version of it. And then you’ve got the real version of it. And let’s try it on for size. If you were to have these real experiences of accomplishment and achievement and excitement, what would that be like as a real experience. And then my goal really is to make the real world more appealing than the the digital world, but pace their experience to say, Well, look, it’s not going to be so immediate. Because in real life, you know, that accomplishment of building something or creating something that could take months and years and you get setbacks. If you lose a level on a game, you can restart instantly. So you can disassociate from failure, and then really associate into success. And there’s an immediacy of it, people wouldn’t play a game, if you had to play a game for months, and then there’s might be a chance that you get some kind of mediocre victory. So that’s why it’s so much more appealing for people to have the fabricated version than the real version. But you can use time distortion. So we’ll look, let’s just go right to the end of your life. Look back, what is gonna, what’s a successful, accomplished life going to be like, describe it for me. And rarely do they say, all right, it’s spending decades and decades playing games. You know, and if I can tap into that feeling of regret. And the real fear of missing out isn’t missing out on that one game or that one conversation with a friend, but missing out on living a life because you’ve actually had this kind of artificial version of it, that can create the emotional leverage for them to reach what’s known as the point of threshold. And the point of threshold is where something changes, and it’s like enough is enough now, don’t need it anymore. And for me, I experienced a few games when I was addicted to them.
strategy games, and you, you know, it’s a very clever model that these games have, because you invest time, and you’re building something, and then you justify it, well, I can’t just walk away from this, because I’ve invested so much time building, whatever you’re kind of building in this, this kind of, you know, fake reality. But for me, it was it was kind of like Deuce just thinking of two different futures, was the future where I spend, you know, an hour or two a day playing these games? And what could I do with that time, if I did something real. And for me, that was a really easy choice. But some people go further down, where they invest real money, and all their friendships are online, then it becomes a harder pattern to break.
R Blank 41:08
So I was reading, I believe it was in the mirror, there was an article about a family who, who working with you underwent a week long technology fast, where they, the whole family gave up tech for a week, and in the article, they documented their experiences, and the husband and wife passing notes to each other and send us sending texts. Is that is that a common type of treatment that you try to work with people.
Adam Cox 41:39
I mean, the the ideal thing is, is not to go cold turkey and this kind of stuff, but establish boundaries. So one of the ways in which parents can do that with children, and adults can deal with themself is to have certain rules. And the thing is, the brain is, you know, in terms of the neuroplasticity, it adapts very, very quickly. So if your rule is that you never ever take a smartphone to bed, okay, the first few days, yeah, it’s uncomfortable, because you’re so used to kind of, you know, looking on social media just before you go to sleep, but then once your brain gets used to it, it can just handle them. So that would be an example of a boundary. You know, another example of a boundary might be parents having parental controls, so that the Wi Fi is only accessible at certain key times, so you don’t then have the risk that children are up at three, four o’clock in the morning, you know, using the Wi Fi, which is quite often, you know, what they what they’re going to need to access the these kind of games or content that they’re they’re looking for. The reason why a fast or a break, you know, maybe a week or so is good, is because it then resets people have you know, dopamine is, is just, you know, just as addictive, if not more addictive, and things like caffeine and nicotine, you know, so, yes, it’s very addictive. But equally, once you stop for a few days, the brain then adjust to not having that thing, in the same way that if people go cold turkey, and just don’t eat any sugar, any refined sugar, the first few days are a nightmare, because the brain is used to having that instant fix of sugar. And I would say social media is the the tech equivalent of something like sugar, it is instant gratification, but you go without it for a few days. And then actually use notice that your anxiety levels go down. And then you’ve got more time to be mindful and appreciate what’s going on. And it enables everything to reset. So that’s where these these kind of weeklong files can be really, really useful. because it enables people to break that pattern and realize that there is the ability to not be constantly glued, you know that there will be families listening to this that know that while they’re eating, you know, dinner, they’re checking their their phone, while they’re on the toilet, they’re checking their phone while they’re in the bath, they’re checking their phone. So, you know, they’re, you know, you can call it an addiction if it has a negative consequence. Or you can just call it dependency. But if you know and I would encourage people, you know, try and establish these very simple boundaries, so that it isn’t so dependent. And if you find that you can’t have very basic boundaries, well, then you might be in a you know, addicted to tech.
R Blank 44:45
Could you could I ask you to if people you know, listening to this are motivated and they were willing to try making, you know, establishing three boundaries that might make a really big difference in terms of in terms of their work. lationship with technology, and obviously everyone’s going to be different, but you know, generally applicable, could you could you pick three boundaries that you would recommend people at least experiment
Adam Cox 45:09
with? Totally. And these are, these are three that are going to have the the, I would say very useful benefits or avoiding very serious consequences. So the first one is driving, and that is, you know, if you have a smartphone, do not make it accessible while you’re driving, you know, lock it in a glove compartment, or put it in the backseat, so you can’t reach to it. So when you’re driving, you do not have the ability just to quickly check something, because that could lead to, you know, a crash that could cost you your life and the lives of other people. So that’s a very simple boundary, and a very healthy boundary. And if you’re one person listening to this, that, you know, actually does check your phone while driving, you know, you need to establish that boundary very quickly. second boundary, do not take a smart device, to bed with you, I would say, if it needs to be charged, charge it in a different room. So there isn’t that temptation, just to kind of lean over and grab it. So you know, one, don’t, don’t make it accessible while driving. Don’t make it accessible, while sleeping. And I would say the third one is meal times, you know, keep it away while you’re eating. And what you’ll find is that you actually are able to connect more to the people that actually matter, rather than these people in the game is on social media that, you know, in all honesty, if you just disappeared off the face of the internet, these people, you know, on these games on the social media, they might think about it for five minutes, but then they’re gonna move on and something else is gonna catch the right. So there are there are certain kinds of people that you don’t mean that much to there’ll be other people that you mean a lot to. So it’s only fair that if you’re giving, you know, a few hours of tension to strangers on the internet, why not give at least half an hour attention to those people that you really do care about?
R Blank 47:04
Oh, totally. So and you brought up a, I think a really important point just a little bit ago about the difference between addiction and dependence. And so if there are people who are listening right now, who don’t feel like they are addicted to technology, but they were willing to give those just those three examples that you just said they were willing to give those three bount those new boundaries a shot? What could they what changes could they expect to see in their health, or their physical health or their mental health or elsewhere in their life?
Adam Cox 47:38
Yeah, so I would say for the one about sleep, I mean, in reality, the one about driving, you’re not going to know if it’s kept you alive, because you’d be alive. And you wouldn’t be, you know, if you’re dead, you’re not going to know that. So that one’s a difficult one to evaluate. But, but in terms of the sleeping one, you know, expect restless sleep for the first few days. And then it’s going to exponentially improve, you know, you’re going to be able to sleep without thinking about, you know what’s going on, you know, and worrying what you’re missing out on. So your sleep is going to improve. And when your sleep improves, generally, I would say that’s one of the most important things to improve physical and mental health, because it’s such a big sleep deficit in the average person. So your mood is going to improve your concentration, you’re going to have less fatigue, so many benefits. And I would say there are social benefits to actually, if you’re having a conversation with someone, you know, lots of people will give someone 10% of their attention because the rest of it is still reading the article or scrolling through social media. So what you’ll see is that actually, when you make eye contact with the person that you’re talking to, or if you’re having a meal with with family or friends, and you actually give them your undivided attention, what you’re going to find is that, that makes it that also releases the kind of the oxytocin, the dopamine, and you’ll find that, that need for connection that you’re probably getting from social media, you have got the ability to get from real people. And you know, I would say when was the last time you actually remember making eye contact with someone, and really, really listening to the words that they had to say, spend a bit of time doing that. And you might find that your relationships improves, your friendships improve. And generally when those things improve, you know, cases or things like depression, anxiety tend to go down. And things like confidence or self esteem go up.
R Blank 49:35
That’s great. anyone listening to this podcast knows, you know, I focus a lot on on ways that people can reduce their exposure to EMF radiation. And that’s one of the reasons I was so interested in having you on the program. Because I find it it’s really hard to get people where to talk about reducing EMF exposure without at least acknowledge The fact that a lot of this technology is designed to addict you, even if it’s even if it doesn’t reach the point of actual addiction, if it’s just dependence, this technology is designed in a way to keep you using it. And, and that’s a really important factor when, like I said, when trying to reduce your exposure, but the way that you’ve talked about these issues is I mean, you have a very productive approach. But it’s also a little bit just terrifying on its own before we even get into the the health effects of the radiation exposure, and where we’re going with it. So as we we bring this this interview to an end where, you know, where do you see this going in the next 510 years?
Adam Cox 50:44
Well, I mean, the key developments are really going to be in the field of augmented reality and virtual reality. So at the moment, you’re still kind of in the real world, albeit looking through a screen, you know, and you know, that that’s going to change the moment the you know, things like Oculus, you know, and lots of these VR headsets are much more immersive. And the more that these gaming experiences, mirror real life, I think you’re gonna find digital recluse is people that don’t go outside for the real world, because the real world requires effort. And it involves failure. And it involves having to learn and slow progress. And all these kind of things that when you compare that to the instant, exciting adrenaline rush that people are gonna get through their VR devices, it won’t compare, you know that it’s like comparing the small levels of sugar you get in a carer with the vast amounts of sugar, you get in a fizzy, soft drink, you know, the carrot is never gonna taste as good. If you’re always drinking fizzy drinks, and I don’t think real life is gonna seem as good. If you’re spending all this time in this virtual reality, that is giving you the ability to fire off all of these neurotransmitters to make you feel good instantly. But it isn’t real. And I think that’s the, that’s the thing. And I think it’s going to be harder and harder for people to have these boundaries. Because, you know, these gaming companies are hiring people like me to figure out how they can get people spending more time and spending more money on on these devices. And, you know, we saw Netflix consumption went up massively, you know, during that, that period of lockdown, very few people are actually spending time in VR at the moment that will change. And when it changes, you know, I think you were gonna hear cases, there was already a case about two years ago of a eight, I think, or nine year old girl that was playing fortnight, and she she went herself she urinated on her own bed, because she couldn’t leave the game, it was that compelling. And I think we’re gonna have, we’re gonna have people with serious health effects, because they’re spending hour upon hour upon hour, just living in these these kind of virtual realities. You know, it’s, it’s gonna be an interesting future. You know, I think it’s difficult to predict exactly what’s going to happen. But of course, you know, when I think of the games that I used to play, when computers, you know, first came out, and I was like, six or seven years old, the graphics were atrocious. The gaming wasn’t realistic at all. And now, you know, when I see my son, you know, playing consoles, they, you know, they’re more realistic, and that’s on a screen. And once you look at that through virtual reality, then yeah, you’re gonna, you’re gonna get the adrenaline, you know, if you’re playing something like, Call of Duty, please, on VR, you’re going to have all of that kind of adrenalin and cortisol and all that kind of stuff as you would if you were actually on a battlefield. And that’s going to create not just addictions, but it’s going to create traumas, and all other things as well. So difficult to predict exactly what’s going to happen. But, you know, certainly, more and more people are going to be spending more and more time on on tech devices. And it’s gonna be harder and harder for them just simply to stop.
R Blank 54:23
Wow, well, I’ve left a little speechless. But I, I really appreciate you, Adam coming, making time and coming on to this program to help educate my audience hear about, about this really important issue and one that that seems to be growing quite quite quite a bit. And I just think this information is super important, and I really appreciate you making the time to help share it.
Adam Cox 54:49
No, it’s an absolute privilege and honor to be on your show. Thank you.
R Blank 54:52
Thank you. So for everyone. This is Adam Cox. You can learn more about him at Adam Cox. That’s Ada MC xx.co.uk and I highly recommend his modern mindset podcast. It’s super popular, where he investigates how thoughts, beliefs, values and emotions influence our behavior in modern life. So thank you once again that I’m it’s been a pleasure.
Adam Cox 55:15
Thank you so much. Oh, wow,
R Blank 55:19
that was a that was a unique perspective on tech addiction, you know, I, I increasingly spend time trying to talk about tech addiction, because because it is, it’s an increasingly important factor in people’s exposure to EMF radiation. But I don’t come to it from the same sort of perspective that someone like Adam does with with his deep and unique perspective, through clinical treatment. And to me, it was it was sort of eye opening. What did you think, Stephanie,
Stephanie Warner 55:49
this was definitely a dense episode, and a lot of great information, I guess I didn’t really realize how much I didn’t know about the like, what tech addiction actually is. So I kind of had a broad idea of like, you’re tethered to your phone all the time. But I have never really taken that kind of deeper look, that somebody who’s say, you know, trying to treat people with tech addiction, how they would approach it,
R Blank 56:17
yeah, I in the work that I do, and we do it shield your body, I tend to think of tech addiction, as as like checking Facebook, on your phone. And I know it sounds obvious now when when when he talks about it this way, but I never put it in the same sort of terms as gaming addiction. And I’ve heard of gaming addiction before. I’ve read the stories about people just dying after not stopping playing video games for 48 hours or something like that, and drinking energy drinks the whole time. But I just never quite linked gaming addiction and tech addiction together the way that Adam, I think helped me understand a lot better.
Stephanie Warner 56:54
Yeah. And I think, you know, I think it’s easy to to think about that extreme narrative or story of somebody who has tech addiction. So it’s, you know, I’m not I don’t have tech addiction, or I’m not overusing my technology, because I haven’t you know, urinated well, because I couldn’t take time away from the game, to go to the bathroom to go to the restroom. It’s more than that. And there’s stages of this of tech addiction. And that was very illuminating to me. Because, you know, maybe I’m not, you know, constantly overusing my technology. But there are definitely points where I, you know, where I’ve had a negative consequence, because I, you know, spent too much time say, I don’t know, watching four seasons of the sopranos in two days, you know, like, that definitely affected my sleep. And I wouldn’t I don’t know if, you know, I would call that tech addiction. But there’s the it was definitely brought to my attention, that I do need to be careful about the consequences and the trade off, you know, is my sleep worth, you know, you know, not spreading that over time.
R Blank 58:08
Sorry, yeah, one thing I remember from Business School, and this one was quite a while ago, but Netflix existed. And I remember one time, there was some assignment we had, we were doing a deep deeper dive into Netflix. And I remember and this was this was the last decade, but I believe it’s still the case, you know, who Netflix considers, or at the time, at least considered to be their biggest competitor? Do you know that 70 blockbuster sleep? Oh, that was? Yeah, then they they, I mean, that was that was the way they approached, Netflix viewed their biggest competitors asleep and see hearing Adam talk about, about tech addiction, really, I don’t know, it really impacted the way. I mean, I feel like I have a relatively healthy, balanced relationship with technology compared to a lot of my friends that I know. But even so it really made me sort of look at my own relationship with tech in a different way. So now it’s time for the three things that I learned. And then 70, you can share your three things, let’s see if we have any of the same three things. So number one, Adam, at least in my opinion, does not have a very optimistic view of where things are going. I mean, I think he’s clearly optimistic about the ability to affect change, and to break tech addiction and people who want to that I it was very empowering from that perspective, I felt, but the evolution of technology as he sees it is extremely alluring to the human condition. As in the ways he talked about augmented reality and virtual reality particular. And, you know, I have to think about it some more, but I think I agree with him on that. So that was one, too. I didn’t actually know that the World Health Organization recognizes gaming addiction as a formal disorder. That’s really interesting to me. And I wonder what it’ll take to get them to recognize Social media addiction in the same sort of category. And then number three is I really liked his three boundaries, a lot of them overlap with what you know, we say all the time, it shields your body. So no phones while driving, no tech in bed, and no phones, during meals. And these are really important. And, you know, they’re they’re just, I mean, they’re, they’re three tangible things that you can do. And they make a big difference. But they’re also examples of things that you can do. And once you start making changes like this, it forces you to think about other ways that you can modify your life, that the tools that you have the power that you have to actually take control over your relationship with this technology, it’s so critical to establish these boundaries for your own mental health. I remember uninstalling Facebook in 2015. And the positive impact was so tangible and so immediate, I have just I’ve not gone back, you know, the only reason I keep a Facebook account actually is, is because you need a personal account in order to manage a business account. But beyond that, not using social media, I found to be really liberating. So those were my three things. Stephanie, what about you? How do you feel about those who do differ?
Stephanie Warner 1:01:17
Well, to go back to your your first statement, or your first learning, I’ll say, you know, I do agree that, and I really had not thought about this until listening to this interview. But augmented reality, Oculus, the immersive VR experiences, you know, there’s, there’s definitely going to be more risk of people enjoying those spaces more than they enjoy life. And I thought it was really impactful, and as impactful to me to hear about how, you know, how people can prefer these experiences versus real life, because real life is harder. And, you know, you get these dopamine hits, when you’re, you know, in these deep experiences, these deep virtual experiences. And in life, we don’t always, you know, we don’t we don’t get those in our, you know, day to day life. So that risk, I think, is really compelling. And it is frightening. But I also think that as you know, as the you know, like the World Health Organization, has recognized this as a real issue and are in a real, you know, health issue. So I think that’s kind of the doorway to opening up more awareness about it. And I think that this is going to affect probably young people more, and my personal belief is that parents are going to see these issues, they’re going to be hearing about this more, and they’re going to start creating some boundaries and understand the risks so that they know how to watch out for it, I do believe that parents will, you know, once more aware of it will, will really kind of, you know, do their, their, their part to make sure that their kids aren’t, you know, preferring virtual life to real life. So the next point that you raised, that I that I actually highlighted in my notes, was the parallels between the three boundaries that that Adam was talking about. And, you know, these are what I really like about the three boundaries is that they are accessible to anybody, you know, you there’s, there’s no, you know, magic thing you have to do, it’s really just creating some boundaries and boundaries are great to create in life anyways. But when you’re talking about your phone, and you’re talking about gaming, there has to be some sort of a balance and there has to be more awareness and mindfulness also, and not just because of like the EMF health risks, which are huge, but also your social life. He and and you know, making sure that you know, we have that healthy balance, so not you know, don’t make your, your, your smartphone accessible while you’re driving. Put it in the backseat, I really really like that that boundary because you know, even when I’m driving, my phone is accessible. I don’t use it while I’m driving. But I hear a ping and there’s that moment of that notification, where there’s that moment of distraction. And you know, I think it’s, it’s really clever to put the phone in a place where even if you hear it, you know, it’s in the backseat and you’re you’re not going to touch it. So I love that. And of course like we say don’t bring your smartphone to bed. Don’t even make it accessible. So again, you know, moving it to another room, charge it in another room. Get a you know, he didn’t say this, but in addition, we you know, this is something we’ve talked about, get it, get a separate cloth. alarm clock. So you know your phone’s not, you don’t, you have no reason to have it in your bed or near your bed and near your head. And then also, keeping just just moving like everyone take your devices off like eating make a simple rule that if when you’re with other people, whether you’re sitting down to dinner or not put the phone away and make eye contact and have that connection with the people that are there in your life, I really appreciate how easy and practical his approach is. And these are little things that can make a huge difference.
R Blank 1:05:35
Yeah, no, I agree. And he’s just in my experience with telling people similar things. And also other ones, like not carrying their phone in their pocket, or turning off Wi Fi at night, you know, once people, you know, because you can feel sometimes powerless in the face of technology that is just such a compelling experience. And you and when you feel powerless, you feel like there’s nothing you can do about it. And when you start realizing that there are these just these little things that you can do, and the big impacts that they’ll have, it empowers you to do even more. And so yeah, you talk about it being accessible. And I like that. I like that framing, because it is accessible. But it’s also like a it’s like a conduit to even more power. Because once you see how easy it is to start affecting change, you can feel empowered to affect more change. And so yeah, so I started out by saying he doesn’t have a very optimistic view of where things are going. But I think we both agree that he does have an optimistic view about the power that we have to make a difference. Absolutely. Yeah, that was nice.
Stephanie Warner 1:06:36
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I do want to share one, one thing that I did that that really impacted my use of my phone, and I want to share this with our listeners, because I think people don’t always think about it. But you know, when we talk about social media, Facebook is on our phone, and it’s constantly pinging at us. That’s true, but that but you’re not most people. Right. And, you know, I think I think it’s true for you know, billions of people in the world who are avid Facebook users. And one of the simplest things that I did to make an impact on my relationship with my phone, is instead of getting the throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and getting rid of Facebook completely what I did was I took that I took the icon, and I moved it six screens deep. So now when I want Yeah, well, I, I actually have to, I actually have to swipe with intention to look at Facebook. And I think that the intention and the mindfulness aspect of something as simple as that is really important. And I know it made a huge impact on my life. I am happier. Because I’m not looking. I’m not a slave to my phone My phone is a phone actually is for texting. I don’t actually like to make phone calls. But that’s that’s what I you know, making it that tiny little change really changed my the my relationship with my phone. I think I’ve said that like three times, but it’s important. No, I just wanted to share that with the listeners. Little little pro tip.
R Blank 1:08:12
No, that was that. That’s a great tip. I remember doing stuff like that on my phone too. And it does make a difference. I’m glad you brought that up. So one last time. I really want to thank Adam Cox for taking the time to educate us and illuminate issues of technology addiction and more importantly, what we can do to combat it. Remember, you can follow up with Adam and learn more at Adam Cox co.uk. If you like this show and want to hear more, please remember to subscribe to this podcast, the healthier tech podcast available on all major podcasting platforms. If you have a moment please also leave a review reviews are critical to help more people find this podcast and learn about the important and undercover topics that we cover. And you can also learn more and sign up for our mailing list to get notified when we have new interviews, webinars ebooks and sales at shield your body calm that shield your body all one word calm. You can also just click that link in the show notes. Until next time, I’m R Blank and I want to thank you so much for tuning into the healthier tech podcast and always remember to shield your body
